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Форум » Форум об игре Age of Wonders - Shadow Magic » Турниры и статистика » Турнир мапмейкеров
Турнир мапмейкеров
Будете ли вы участвовать в предложенном турнире мапмейкеров?
HellBrickДата: Воскресенье, 27 Ноябрь 2011, 13:49 | Сообщение # 1
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Описание оригинальной идеи от Джеро ниже.

Ветряные мельницы побеждены. Что дальше?

http://twitter.com/hellbrick
 
JeronimoДата: Воскресенье, 27 Ноябрь 2011, 13:49 | Сообщение # 2
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If my opinion counts... I'd recommend to hold a "Mapmaker Tournament" before thinking in anything based in customized scenarios. Creativity represents another battleground to compare our skills.

It's a Single Elimination event. Players sign in choosing a name "Title" (instead of picking Races).
These Titles are then randomly sorted among the duelists. Used Titles cannot repeat.

1) Time to make maps: 10 days (from monday to next wednesday)
2) Time to evaluate: 4 days (from thursday to sunday)
3) Winners will compete with next opponent under a new Map Title.

Time to make maps: It's the planning and creation of the Map based in the Title... you can test it secretly (to find flaws) with anyone except your opponent (who will be making his own Map too).
Standard size will be M+UG (2 players). Finished maps are sent via e-mail to an organizer.
If you dont send your map within the 10 days, you are eliminated.

Time to evaluate: Once organizer receives all maps, he posts them in the tournament section.
Once all maps are presented, everyone is invited to take part in the other mapmaker eliminations.
It consists in downloading the 2 maps created under same Title (creativity duels) and compare them to see which is the best one, this way 1 of them will pass to next stage.

--Write post as REVIEW ROUND #, and then the Winners of each Title. If you want add comments--
For people who is not experienced in evaluation... it should consider at least 3 pillars:
1) Equilibrium: Balance of choices
2) Playability: Variety of choices
3) Originality: Design of choices

Thanks for reading... hoping we agree for a Mapmaker tournament first, and AoW Conquest later.


Сообщение отредактировал Jeronimo - Воскресенье, 27 Ноябрь 2011, 13:23
 
HellBrickДата: Воскресенье, 27 Ноябрь 2011, 13:49 | Сообщение # 3
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It's quite difficult to imagine a mapmaking tournament when we have about 2.5 mapmakers, especially if we're talking about such overcomplicated tournament scheme.

Ветряные мельницы побеждены. Что дальше?

http://twitter.com/hellbrick
 
JeronimoДата: Воскресенье, 27 Ноябрь 2011, 13:50 | Сообщение # 4
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Quote (HellBrick)
It's quite difficult to imagine a mapmaking tournament when we have about 2.5 mapmakers


We have 2.5 "free" mapmakers. A competition calls everyone interested in having 1st/2nd place rewards.
I will personally take part, as also anyone interested in winning merits and reputation.

Quote (HellBrick)
especially if we're talking about such overcomplicated tournament scheme.


Each stage will require 2 weeks: 10 days for making the map/testing it (to correct flaws) and 4 days to evaluate them with a review (choosing winner from 2 players with a same Title work).

Several persons wont find this kind of competition appealing.
However if signed up players are at least 8, its worth of trying it.

You Hellbrick seem to not be interested at all... but lets hear more opinions.
 
HellBrickДата: Воскресенье, 27 Ноябрь 2011, 13:50 | Сообщение # 5
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Quote (Jeronimo)
You Hellbrick seem to not be interested at all...

That's not true, I think it would be fun to watch. I just don't see this actually happening, that's all. Three major flaws I see in the system are:

1. Lack of mapmakers. We have NalFeiN, a bit of Noin and Jean de Metz, and probably 2-3 unknown guys who can give it a shot just for the hell of it. There are rare occasions of singleplayer maps being uploaded to the website, but I wouldn't count on their authors, on account of them not being active members of community.

2. Forcing to work on a specified title/theme. Map making is kinda artistic thing, and it's next to impossible to do it well when you're constricted to some boundaries, not to mention it becomes way less fun. I can say for sure that if it was a contest in my artistic thing, I wouldn't participate under such rules.

3. Practice shows that amount of fuck given by people about pre-made maps is incredibly low in our community. We see it every year, when someone tries to engage people in trying some maps for the tournament or simply looking at them in editor and providing some feedback.

Personally, I find more generic mapmaking competition an interesting thing - for example, HG way of doing it seems okay, and works awesome along with their tournaments cycle. But I just don't see how the same thing can work for our case, which is just sad.


Ветряные мельницы побеждены. Что дальше?

http://twitter.com/hellbrick
 
JeronimoДата: Воскресенье, 27 Ноябрь 2011, 13:50 | Сообщение # 6
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Quote (HellBrick)
1. Lack of mapmakers. We have NalFeiN, a bit of Noin and Jean de Metz, and probably 2-3 unknown guys who can give it a shot just for the hell of it.

If you open a registration for a mapmaker tournament, we will see how many will want to try it.
My prediction is that some players who never tried this... maybe find a "spark" to get involved in future.

Quote (HellBrick)
2. Forcing to work on a specified title/theme. Map making is kinda artistic thing, and it's next to impossible to do it well when you're constricted to some boundaries...

Our tournament has a deeper purpose: Variated strong maps M+UG due to competition.
I wrote this is a sort of Single Elimination tournament -> How can this be achieved?

Mapmaking Duel: Hellbrick vs Jeronimo. Title: Eternal Rivals (choosen randomly from Titles List).
You claim have an artistic interest... how will you create a map under such Title?

You can think of some themes like Archons vs Undead, Elves vs Dark Elves, Tigrans vs Draconians, or even Hobbits vs Frostlings vs Goblins. After having some "base ideas" you will start making your map.
In fact its more interesting than you imagine.

But the hardest test comes later... when community players watch our maps and concede 1 pass/1 elimination by voting/commenting the "best map" titled as Eternal Rivals.
Will your map satisfy enough the 3 pillars (Equilibrium/Playability/Originality)?

Quote (HellBrick)
3. Practice shows that amount of fuck given by people about pre-made maps is incredibly low in our community.

I believe there will be a "Before/After" this Mapmaker tournament (inner spark prediction).
 
HellBrickДата: Воскресенье, 27 Ноябрь 2011, 13:58 | Сообщение # 7
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Let's see what other guys think about it: I've moved the discussion to a separate topic with a poll. Options are:
Yes, I will participate
I would participate, but with a different tournament format
I wouldn't participate, but I find it interesting to watch
I wouldn't participate, and I don't care at all.

Quote (Jeronimo)
Mapmaking Duel: Hellbrick vs Jeronimo. Title: Eternal Rivals (choosen randomly from Titles List). You claim have an artistic interest... how will you create a map under such Title?

My point is this system will take away the spontaneous inspiration/spark part of the creativity. I wouldn't be able to use any theme someone else came up with to base art on and I wouldn't find any fun in it.


Ветряные мельницы побеждены. Что дальше?

http://twitter.com/hellbrick
 
ArondДата: Воскресенье, 27 Ноябрь 2011, 17:32 | Сообщение # 8
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Would be interesting to support your idea Jero, but I have never made maps and I guess personally me will not be able to complete at least some sort of a map in 10 days smile
Also I think more attention should be taken on options of titles` selection. Who suggests, what criterias, who estimates which titles to choose, may be adding descriptions, something like that.
 
NalFeiNДата: Воскресенье, 27 Ноябрь 2011, 17:42 | Сообщение # 9
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すみませんが、私はほとんど理解していませんでした

翻訳を必要とする



 
jet800Дата: Воскресенье, 27 Ноябрь 2011, 18:13 | Сообщение # 10
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Nalf、エスペラント語の隣に書き込み
 
ArondДата: Воскресенье, 27 Ноябрь 2011, 18:23 | Сообщение # 11
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Вы правы smile
 
Roke_AlvaДата: Понедельник, 28 Ноябрь 2011, 08:24 | Сообщение # 12
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....Омг.

Молния!
Сквозь расколотый кристалл...
Молния!
Эшафот и тронный зал...
Молния!
Четверых Один призвал...
Молния...
 
JeronimoДата: Понедельник, 28 Ноябрь 2011, 12:53 | Сообщение # 13
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Quote (Arond)
Would be interesting to support your idea Jero, but I have never made maps and I guess personally me will not be able to complete at least some sort of a map in 10 days.

You can always try with the fast way... Put a random seed (choosing your settings), and that way you get some quick map, on which you will later rework: balancing the sides, making new paths, adding details.

Quote (Arond)
Also I think more attention should be taken on options of titles` selection. Who suggests, what criterias, who estimates which titles to choose, may be adding descriptions, something like that.

In current tournaments, we sign in choosing a Race. In a Mapmaker tournament you will sign in writing any Title you find interesting to make a map with.
Once "Titles List" is presented (which will be as long as players have signed in), they will be randomly drew by organizer among the mapmaker duelists.
No descriptions, just a Title: this way you have more freedom, and makes the map versatile for any event.
 
HellBrickДата: Понедельник, 28 Ноябрь 2011, 20:04 | Сообщение # 14
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Quote (NalFeiN)
すみませんが、私はほとんど理解していませんでした 翻訳を必要とする

Quote (jet800)
Nalf、エスペラント語の隣に書き込み

... what the fuck?!..


Ветряные мельницы побеждены. Что дальше?

http://twitter.com/hellbrick
 
ArondДата: Понедельник, 28 Ноябрь 2011, 22:07 | Сообщение # 15
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Перевод нужен.
 
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